David Lowery appears, without the need for magic, deliberately on my laptop. His eyes, however, do seem to conjure something. Like a bust on the verge of giving rise to a new legend, Lowery has the gesture of a storyteller, one who knows he is inhabited by ghosts from distant realms and who, through his great talent as a director, knows how to exorcise them in each of his films.
Lowery has summoned the spirits of existentialism in A Ghost Story (2017), the ghosts of childhood and lost innocence in his adaptations of Disney films, and has successfully confronted the specter of ambition in his medieval epic The Green Knight (2021). This time, he summons a new spirit, one he has carried within himself for a long time. He just needed a couple of nights in a haunted hotel with Ariana Grande to imagine the perfect exorcism, casting a spell through fashion and music in Mother Mary (2026), coming to Spanish cinemas on 31 July, and recently presented at Filmin’s Atlàntida Mallorca Film Festival.
It all begins with an image. A mirage. The inner impulse that compels one to create. This is how Lowery sees it, after years of crafting a personal mythology based on common tales. A perfect cabinet of curiosities where all the realities that inhabit him wander freely, without the need to ascribe horrific qualities to them. He is a creator of stories, of reflections. A hall of mirrors in and of himself. Not even his latest film, Mother Mary, starring Anne Hathaway and Michaela Coel, is a typical ghost story.
“The first image I had was a major pop star desperately turning to an old friend to have a dress made for her,” he tells me. Of course, beneath that fabric, the American director has woven and stitched together again a whole series of personal ghosts that echo an unresolved issue within him. In his film, with costume design by Iris van Herpen, a star-studded cast including Hunter Schafer and Kaia Gerber, and a soundscape crafted by Jack Antonoff, Charli xcx, and FKA twigs, everything comes together to create the perfect exorcism. “I still have a lot to work through, and I need to make peace with my own ghosts,” says Lowery. In the meantime, art will always remain his best remedy. Yet another reflection in his mirror of myths and legends that reveals to us: the ghost is none other than ourselves.
To begin with, what was the first image or idea that sparked Mother Mary?
Oh, that’s a great question. There are images that exist in this movie that precede the story. There was an image of one woman cradling another one in her arms that I had maybe in 2024 or 2025. And that image, a very Pietà-like image, had a feeling and a sound attached to it. I knew it would become a movie someday. That movie was Mother Mary. The image of someone cutting themselves with scissors is something that I’ve had in one of my short films from twenty years ago, and that image has hung on and been a part of other projects and eventually again manifested in Mother Mary.
But the story itself, the first image that represents those characters, I think it was when she walks through the door and asks Sam for a dress. That image, that dynamic between the two characters, what she looked like, the way the line would be delivered, the way we’d cut after that, that shot was probably the very first thing. It was born from an emotional need. So it was a very personal image. Everything came from that.
But the story itself, the first image that represents those characters, I think it was when she walks through the door and asks Sam for a dress. That image, that dynamic between the two characters, what she looked like, the way the line would be delivered, the way we’d cut after that, that shot was probably the very first thing. It was born from an emotional need. So it was a very personal image. Everything came from that.
How did you explore that feeling and the exchange of feelings between these two women through fashion and Iris van Herpen’s specific vision of fashion?
I love fashion both literally and metaphorically. I love the way in which a dress or a garment can change someone or define somebody or represent an opinion. In this particular case, the idea that these two artists come together and are bound together by the fabric that one of them creates and the other one wears is a very charged and meaningful idea. The concept of these two characters creating a dress together was very literal but also metaphorical. The dress represents any creative process. It’s about coming together with someone to collaborate on something, or even working on one’s own.
My creative process is often very solitary and it feels very much like what the characters go through in this movie. And I knew that the dress that they made together needed to function both on a literal level, that it needed to be a dress that Anne Hathaway could wear. But it also needed to be a representation of the catharsis that the two characters go through. A lot was riding on that dress and I knew that Iris van Herpen was probably the only person that could make a dress that captured the feeling that I wanted to.
My creative process is often very solitary and it feels very much like what the characters go through in this movie. And I knew that the dress that they made together needed to function both on a literal level, that it needed to be a dress that Anne Hathaway could wear. But it also needed to be a representation of the catharsis that the two characters go through. A lot was riding on that dress and I knew that Iris van Herpen was probably the only person that could make a dress that captured the feeling that I wanted to.
Were there any real-life pop stars who inspired the character? And why did you choose Anne Hathaway as the lead? She’s extraordinary, but not an obvious choice for a pop star.
Every pop star influenced me in some way. I have my favourites; the ones I like to listen to are the ones I go to see in concert every chance I get. Every single pop star has influenced me, from Madonna to Robyn to Taylor Swift to Lorde. And I think there were very few actors who could play this character. I needed someone who was first and foremost a phenomenal actor who could take a script that was going to function like a play, find all the meaning in the text and dialogue, and bring it to the surface. And indeed, bring more meaning to the surface than I even intended.
But she also had to be an icon in her own right. She had to be someone able to walk into the first frame and let the audience understand the level of celebrity that she was. And there are very few people that could do that. She also needed to be able to sing, dance, and hold her own in a pop concert full of thirty thousand people. Anne Hathaway, I think, was the only one who could do that.
But she also had to be an icon in her own right. She had to be someone able to walk into the first frame and let the audience understand the level of celebrity that she was. And there are very few people that could do that. She also needed to be able to sing, dance, and hold her own in a pop concert full of thirty thousand people. Anne Hathaway, I think, was the only one who could do that.
Speaking of big celebrities, what was it like to enlist FKA twigs, Charli xcx and Jack Antonoff? How did you use the sound to cast the spell and transmute those feelings through the atmosphere?
It was a very long process. Getting the music right was difficult because in the screenplay, I described these songs as the greatest pop songs anyone’s ever heard. I put all sorts of superlatives in the screenplay that we then held ourselves to. We were like, ‘let’s try to create some iconic pop music’. And so I began to work with artists who are incredible icons in their own right, like Charli, Jack, and Twigs. What we learned was that they could write great songs — and they did. The demos they sent me were top-shelf pop music. But we needed to create an artist. And to do that, it required working with the artist who was gonna play Mother Mary — Anne Hathaway. I give so much credit to Anne for making the music of her own. She went in and took these songs that Jack and Twigs and Charli were writing.
We had other artists collaborating too. My composer, Daniel Hart, was contributing songs to the score. We were casting a wide net and seeing how much music we could get and how much we could find. We were asking: what could we pull from where to create a discography for this fictional artist? And then Anne took it and she really knitted it all together in her own voice. She took every one of those songs and trained herself to sing the way a pop star needs to sing, but also to become a pop star that was distinctly her. She couldn’t just copy Charli or copy Twigs or copy Taylor Swift or Beyoncé or Lorde or any of the other artists that we all admire. She had to do it her own way. And that required going into all these songs and sort of rewriting them for her own voice.
We had other artists collaborating too. My composer, Daniel Hart, was contributing songs to the score. We were casting a wide net and seeing how much music we could get and how much we could find. We were asking: what could we pull from where to create a discography for this fictional artist? And then Anne took it and she really knitted it all together in her own voice. She took every one of those songs and trained herself to sing the way a pop star needs to sing, but also to become a pop star that was distinctly her. She couldn’t just copy Charli or copy Twigs or copy Taylor Swift or Beyoncé or Lorde or any of the other artists that we all admire. She had to do it her own way. And that required going into all these songs and sort of rewriting them for her own voice.
Photo by Frederic Batier. Courtesy of A24
There’s a scene in which she dances with no music. She’s almost possessed. How did that scene come about?
It was one of the most memorable days on set. It took probably three weeks. She’d been in a pop star bootcamp for the past five months and we were working with an incredible choreographer named Dani Vitale, who is one of my closest friends, and I kind of think she was my secret co-director in the movie because she really helped me learn how to communicate.
There was so much that I wanted to communicate through movement in this movie, but I didn’t have the language to do it because I’m not a dancer. Dani really helped, not just with that dancing scene, but with the entire film, helping us figure out what movement could be used to express the things we were after, both in the concert scenes and in the scenes where Twigs is possessed, or even scenes where Anne had to reach up for something and she didn’t know what she was reaching for. Dani helped Anne learn how to use her body to express things in a way that she never had before. But it all came to a head in that silent dance scene. Michaela Coel gets so many incredible monologues in the movie. And that dance is Anne Hathaway’s monologue.
There was so much that I wanted to communicate through movement in this movie, but I didn’t have the language to do it because I’m not a dancer. Dani really helped, not just with that dancing scene, but with the entire film, helping us figure out what movement could be used to express the things we were after, both in the concert scenes and in the scenes where Twigs is possessed, or even scenes where Anne had to reach up for something and she didn’t know what she was reaching for. Dani helped Anne learn how to use her body to express things in a way that she never had before. But it all came to a head in that silent dance scene. Michaela Coel gets so many incredible monologues in the movie. And that dance is Anne Hathaway’s monologue.
That’s beautiful, the way you describe it. I was also wondering how you tried to express something you had never expressed in this film. You have already talked about ghosts in other films, and about telling stories and casting spells, somehow. In this project, how did you reveal something about yourself that you didn’t even think you could feel?
I’m still figuring that out. But one of the things that I wanted to do with this movie was to tap into something that I couldn’t put into words. So much of the movie is concerned with words. It’s all about dialogue. It’s about communicating through words. When I felt that the movie was getting really personal and meaningful to me was when those words fell away and ceased to be important. And I don’t quite know yet what I’ve learned about myself or revealed about myself.
I know that both of those characters, Sam and Mother Mary, are aspects of myself. I’m working through something and trying to achieve some form of catharsis, both for them, for myself, for the audience. But I won’t know for a long time what I’ve learned about myself from this movie or what I’ve revealed. It’ll come, but it’s still too new.
Someday I might learn how to talk about it with a bit more specificity, but right now it’s still a primordial feeling that I can only express through feeling it. And hopefully the movie resonates and other people feel it as well and find their own meaning. But as to what it means to me, I’m still processing it.
I know that both of those characters, Sam and Mother Mary, are aspects of myself. I’m working through something and trying to achieve some form of catharsis, both for them, for myself, for the audience. But I won’t know for a long time what I’ve learned about myself from this movie or what I’ve revealed. It’ll come, but it’s still too new.
Someday I might learn how to talk about it with a bit more specificity, but right now it’s still a primordial feeling that I can only express through feeling it. And hopefully the movie resonates and other people feel it as well and find their own meaning. But as to what it means to me, I’m still processing it.
Do you think becoming a global icon inevitably means giving up part of yourself? On your journey to success as a filmmaker, have you felt that you were losing part of yourself?
Sometimes I do feel that I’ve lost sight of who I am, and that happens almost on every movie I make. There comes a period where I feel like I’m at a loss and I’m in despair. When I was making The Green Knight, back in 2019, that one night of despair led to this movie.
How so?
I started writing this movie that night as a way to sort of find myself again. I don’t know if you have to sacrifice a lot… I wouldn’t ever want to suggest that it involves a sacrifice. For me it would be because I’m a very private and shy person, and I would have to become public, even when having this conversation. I love talking about my movies, but I feel like there’s a degree of discomfort to that and I have to get used to it. Even when I’m making Disney movies, they’re very personal, they require me to be vulnerable and put my vulnerabilities on display. And that’s okay, that’s what I’m here for. Again, it’s not a sacrifice because I want to do it. But it does mean that I’m willingly entering a place of discomfort. And that’s okay, it’s not a bad thing.
I wonder whether, in that state of discomfort, you found some light and healing through the creative process of making this film, as the characters do.
I think so. The reason I can say that is because this movie was incredibly difficult to make. It took a long time. There were lots of stops and starts, it took a lot out of everyone. Now I look at it with a sense of lightness. I like it, it makes me laugh in a good way. It makes me happy. It makes me smile. And I have a great deal of affection for it.
With other movies I made, I can’t feel that way about them. For one reason or another, there’s always a heaviness attached to them. But with this one, there’s a lightness. I feel a great deal of affection towards it. I don’t quite know at what point that happened or where the point of catharsis was, but it was achieved. I do feel that there was healing involved. And I’m looking forward to it.
With other movies I made, I can’t feel that way about them. For one reason or another, there’s always a heaviness attached to them. But with this one, there’s a lightness. I feel a great deal of affection towards it. I don’t quite know at what point that happened or where the point of catharsis was, but it was achieved. I do feel that there was healing involved. And I’m looking forward to it.
Photo by Frederic Batier. Courtesy of A24